Interesting - But, More important probably is how to put it out if in the rare occasion that you get shot at in your RV and this happens. (kidding about being shot) I would consider lithium batteries in a RV to be safer than absorption refrigerators - which I consider safe. I wonder if there have been any documented RV fires from lithium batteries ? And again how to put them out - water? dry chemical? foam? or since its a chemical reaction maybe you can stop the flames intermittently but no way to stop the reaction ? - so it will just reignite ???? I wonder also how effective one of the auto extinguishers in a tube would be with something like this ?? I imagine that there is a lot nasty chemicals in the smoke/fumes that could really hurt you.
Good question! I was thinking the same thing. Last year I had a toad hub catch fire do to a brake failure (story for another time). I went through two ABC and two Halon extinguishers trying to put it out. When the FD showed up they advised I should have used water to cool it as heat was causing the hub to re-ignite despite hitting it with various fire extinguishers. Always leaning!
Not sure what to conclude from this exercise other than that LFP batteries can burn if severely damaged. There are multiple types of LFP battery cells, namely metal cylindrical and prismatic which may behave the same or differently. My question then is, can an LFP battery fire happen in real life situations like traffic accidents and RV fires and is one type more or less safe than another? It would be interesting to see a more systematic test (e.g., a crash test) designed to find out what would happen in real world situations. It doesn’t take much imagination to guess what would happen if there was a gasoline or propane fire. Thanks for sharing the experiment!
I'm reminded of a laminate salesman telling me his product was "bulletproof" and "wears like iron"... so i borrowed his sample, shot it, and gave it back to him...
Shooting a propane tank, in most all cases, it will not explode either. I think in both cases, shooting batteries or propane tanks, or anything capable of storing large amounts of energy has the potential to end badly. Both lead acid and lithium chemistry have their advantages and disadvantages. The only right choice is that of the consumer. My major concern about lithium batteries is ensuring my RV can work with the chemistry without causing other issues, which can be just as costly as the lithium chemistry its self, bullets aside.
No, all RV batteries use Lithium Iron Phosphate cells, while cell phones and computers use Lithium Ion cells. I wrote an article about the differences a while ago, so I’ll have to dig it out and repost it here.
Interesting - But, More important probably is how to put it out if in the rare occasion that you get shot at in your RV and this happens. (kidding about being shot) I would consider lithium batteries in a RV to be safer than absorption refrigerators - which I consider safe. I wonder if there have been any documented RV fires from lithium batteries ? And again how to put them out - water? dry chemical? foam? or since its a chemical reaction maybe you can stop the flames intermittently but no way to stop the reaction ? - so it will just reignite ???? I wonder also how effective one of the auto extinguishers in a tube would be with something like this ?? I imagine that there is a lot nasty chemicals in the smoke/fumes that could really hurt you.
Options for fighting small lithium fires is based on removing access to O2.
Continuous flooding with water to both cool (remove heat) and drown (remove access to O2); or
Use a fire blanket. Some fire departments now carry small single-use lithium fire blankets.
I’m pondering whether carrying a fire blanket in our RV (and where to carry it) is a worthwhile investment.
Perhaps a lithium battery-compatible fire blanket can be installed in a battery compartment? Designed to drop over the batteries and wrap around?
https://youtu.be/Jow0p7oTFPs
Good question! I was thinking the same thing. Last year I had a toad hub catch fire do to a brake failure (story for another time). I went through two ABC and two Halon extinguishers trying to put it out. When the FD showed up they advised I should have used water to cool it as heat was causing the hub to re-ignite despite hitting it with various fire extinguishers. Always leaning!
Another You Tuber, Will Prowse, drilled a LiFePo battery cell. It reacted in a similar manners. The link is to that video.
https://youtu.be/D8xNjz73p80?si=2nuXYMAIJ1j_0UUJ
Here’s another puncture of a “solid state” cell reaction.
https://youtu.be/-pu8hs6hmyk?si=SBc3heAtW5PZvVwW
If this is inappropriate for this forum delete it.
All good info.
To grab a phrase from The Hunt for Red October; “Ryan—be careful what you shoot at, hm? Most things in here don’t react too well to bullets.”
Not sure what to conclude from this exercise other than that LFP batteries can burn if severely damaged. There are multiple types of LFP battery cells, namely metal cylindrical and prismatic which may behave the same or differently. My question then is, can an LFP battery fire happen in real life situations like traffic accidents and RV fires and is one type more or less safe than another? It would be interesting to see a more systematic test (e.g., a crash test) designed to find out what would happen in real world situations. It doesn’t take much imagination to guess what would happen if there was a gasoline or propane fire. Thanks for sharing the experiment!
I'm reminded of a laminate salesman telling me his product was "bulletproof" and "wears like iron"... so i borrowed his sample, shot it, and gave it back to him...
"Nope."
Shooting a propane tank, in most all cases, it will not explode either. I think in both cases, shooting batteries or propane tanks, or anything capable of storing large amounts of energy has the potential to end badly. Both lead acid and lithium chemistry have their advantages and disadvantages. The only right choice is that of the consumer. My major concern about lithium batteries is ensuring my RV can work with the chemistry without causing other issues, which can be just as costly as the lithium chemistry its self, bullets aside.
So are there batteries of the "wrong" chemistry that RV'ers could buy my mistake?
i.e. form factor that "looks right" but isn't appropriate for RV use?
No, all RV batteries use Lithium Iron Phosphate cells, while cell phones and computers use Lithium Ion cells. I wrote an article about the differences a while ago, so I’ll have to dig it out and repost it here.