A guy who quotes Heinlein is alright with me!! BTW, electrical rates here in San Diego go from 45 to 56 cents per KWH. Yep, highest rates in the county thanks to our progressive government. They tell us that they're saving the planet. LOL!!
Your figures seem correct but you're forgetting the income generated by those 50 sites. (Modestly, $65 a night. I have seen some $175 a night.
$3,250 @ $65. Leaving $2500 profit. (not counting food sale or other add ons.
What they should do in go to installing a credit card meter that would send you notifications if usage and billing. Use more, pay more. Use less, pay less. And it could be structured to give favorable rate to longer term rental.
Mike, your math is correct but there is a flaw in your theory of pedestal ampacity and actual current draw/bill calculation. Just because you are hooked up to a 20A pedestal doesn't mean that you are using 20 amps at whatever duty cycle you allow for in your calculations. I have a 200 amp panel at my home and I assure you that my bill has nothing to do with having that available to me. Likewise, I doubt any campground could use anywhere near the KWH that you would theoretically use if you multiplied the number of pedestals times their size times the number of hours.
I have been stationary in Wv since middle of October. Wv is low cost per Kw and we pay the electricity bill. We average mostly around 250 per month so can’t complain if a campground wants to bill for it. I should state this is winter usage. It would be nice if you do pay that they would show the rate though. You would think that a campground would figure an annual budget each year with thoughts of need repairs, cost of operation and future upgrades but maybe they don’t? A campground is a business so how else would you do it lol…
It's difficult to narrow down the actual cost of electrifying an RV for us non-pros. But last year I had my RV (30 amp) plugged into my property in northern Michigan for 4 months. The property is unimproved except for two 30 amp pedestals, water, and sewer. My friend joined me for the time there with his 30 amp RV. So the cost for two 30 amp RVs (plus site lighting) the cost was $732 for the year. $125 of that was the charge for electricity or $.09 per kW. That's $1.04 per day or around $32 per month. The larger cost was for distribution ($119) and availability ($228). ~$35 was tax, surcharge, and low income fund. That's about as close to real world as I can get. Jim
Hi Mike, I am at a campground in central Florida and I pay for electricity by the month. I have a Class C, 30amp unit, with cooling temp set at 75 and the heat pump set at 68. They do not supply my price per KWH nor how many KWH's I use; but my bills have been between $60 & $70.
This ought to be a spirited discussion. Thanks Mike. No truer words ever than " I should also add that if the average consumer gets something for “free” they tend to take much more of it than they normally would. The glaring example here is “free” electric power at campgrounds."
Our campground meters our monthly sites and not our nightly campers. Our "monthlies" do not leave their A/C on when they go home for the week on Sunday but our "nightlies" have no such consideration when they are out fishing for the day. It really does not take long to cool down an RV so there is no real good reason to leave the A/C on all day long while no one is home to enjoy it.
Our 12 cent per KWH is pretty reasonable but we also pay a higher "off season" rate during the winter because our co-op charges a differential when we do not use as much electricity during the off season so our annual rate is still pegged to our summer consumption. Our electricity costs last year was $6491 for 28 sites that were available for 4 1/2 months.
The rates posted for California in that chart aren't even close. As a retired employee of PG&E, and former resident of California, the rate we were paying was .30 cents per kwh for the base rate of the first 400 kwh's. After that it went up. Living in our 5th Wheel that last year we spent in California, our average electrical bill in the 5th wheel during the Summer was over $350 per month. RV Parks are now charging much higher rates per night, which covers the cost of the electricity used. I agree that there are some RV Parks that need to do a lot more maintenance to their Electrical Pedestals. I've seen some that don't give you 50 amp power unless you pay more per night, and understandably so.
We spend the winter in Florida on a lot we own so we pay for the electricity. We run HVAC all the time hot or cold and average about $150/month. We don’t keep it very cold or very warm inside.
Mike, i think your statement that we don't pay for the "free electricity " we use is incorrect. The campground fees we pay on a daily, weekly or long term stay basis should more than pay for all the services and amenities, including electricity.
I am already questioning why I am spending boat-loads of money now for storage, fuel, repairs, upgrades, maintenance and lastly the huge outlay of cost for the RV itself. I shake my head planning a trip and seeing/knowing the price of a nightly campground is going up to point that I ask myself, why not just sell everything and do a motel for $69 a night? And now tack on a metered electrical charge?
A guy who quotes Heinlein is alright with me!! BTW, electrical rates here in San Diego go from 45 to 56 cents per KWH. Yep, highest rates in the county thanks to our progressive government. They tell us that they're saving the planet. LOL!!
Your figures seem correct but you're forgetting the income generated by those 50 sites. (Modestly, $65 a night. I have seen some $175 a night.
$3,250 @ $65. Leaving $2500 profit. (not counting food sale or other add ons.
What they should do in go to installing a credit card meter that would send you notifications if usage and billing. Use more, pay more. Use less, pay less. And it could be structured to give favorable rate to longer term rental.
Mike, your math is correct but there is a flaw in your theory of pedestal ampacity and actual current draw/bill calculation. Just because you are hooked up to a 20A pedestal doesn't mean that you are using 20 amps at whatever duty cycle you allow for in your calculations. I have a 200 amp panel at my home and I assure you that my bill has nothing to do with having that available to me. Likewise, I doubt any campground could use anywhere near the KWH that you would theoretically use if you multiplied the number of pedestals times their size times the number of hours.
I have been stationary in Wv since middle of October. Wv is low cost per Kw and we pay the electricity bill. We average mostly around 250 per month so can’t complain if a campground wants to bill for it. I should state this is winter usage. It would be nice if you do pay that they would show the rate though. You would think that a campground would figure an annual budget each year with thoughts of need repairs, cost of operation and future upgrades but maybe they don’t? A campground is a business so how else would you do it lol…
It's difficult to narrow down the actual cost of electrifying an RV for us non-pros. But last year I had my RV (30 amp) plugged into my property in northern Michigan for 4 months. The property is unimproved except for two 30 amp pedestals, water, and sewer. My friend joined me for the time there with his 30 amp RV. So the cost for two 30 amp RVs (plus site lighting) the cost was $732 for the year. $125 of that was the charge for electricity or $.09 per kW. That's $1.04 per day or around $32 per month. The larger cost was for distribution ($119) and availability ($228). ~$35 was tax, surcharge, and low income fund. That's about as close to real world as I can get. Jim
Hi Mike, I am at a campground in central Florida and I pay for electricity by the month. I have a Class C, 30amp unit, with cooling temp set at 75 and the heat pump set at 68. They do not supply my price per KWH nor how many KWH's I use; but my bills have been between $60 & $70.
This ought to be a spirited discussion. Thanks Mike. No truer words ever than " I should also add that if the average consumer gets something for “free” they tend to take much more of it than they normally would. The glaring example here is “free” electric power at campgrounds."
Our campground meters our monthly sites and not our nightly campers. Our "monthlies" do not leave their A/C on when they go home for the week on Sunday but our "nightlies" have no such consideration when they are out fishing for the day. It really does not take long to cool down an RV so there is no real good reason to leave the A/C on all day long while no one is home to enjoy it.
Our 12 cent per KWH is pretty reasonable but we also pay a higher "off season" rate during the winter because our co-op charges a differential when we do not use as much electricity during the off season so our annual rate is still pegged to our summer consumption. Our electricity costs last year was $6491 for 28 sites that were available for 4 1/2 months.
The rates posted for California in that chart aren't even close. As a retired employee of PG&E, and former resident of California, the rate we were paying was .30 cents per kwh for the base rate of the first 400 kwh's. After that it went up. Living in our 5th Wheel that last year we spent in California, our average electrical bill in the 5th wheel during the Summer was over $350 per month. RV Parks are now charging much higher rates per night, which covers the cost of the electricity used. I agree that there are some RV Parks that need to do a lot more maintenance to their Electrical Pedestals. I've seen some that don't give you 50 amp power unless you pay more per night, and understandably so.
We spend the winter in Florida on a lot we own so we pay for the electricity. We run HVAC all the time hot or cold and average about $150/month. We don’t keep it very cold or very warm inside.
Mike, i think your statement that we don't pay for the "free electricity " we use is incorrect. The campground fees we pay on a daily, weekly or long term stay basis should more than pay for all the services and amenities, including electricity.
I am already questioning why I am spending boat-loads of money now for storage, fuel, repairs, upgrades, maintenance and lastly the huge outlay of cost for the RV itself. I shake my head planning a trip and seeing/knowing the price of a nightly campground is going up to point that I ask myself, why not just sell everything and do a motel for $69 a night? And now tack on a metered electrical charge?
To say nothing of those charging electric vehicles on this “free” power.
That’s a huge issue which is why I’m questioning “free” electricity at campgrounds.
Mike, it is possible campgrounds are paying reduced commercial rates, which would make your estimates high.
No, Mike just a home owner who watches the bills. Here in NH residential additional charges include:
kWh distribution @ $0.05410/kWh
Regulatory reconciliation adj @ $0.00046/kWh
Transmission @ $0.02360/kWh
Stranded cst recovery @ $0.00694/kWh
System benefits @ $0.00905/kWh
Customer chg flat rate $13.81
So last month was 397.00kWh
Electricity supply was $0.10990/kWh $43.63
Delivery was $51.19
Winter stay in Florida is metered. Monthly cost is around $80-100, right in the cost you estimated.
Great information as always! Something else to consider down the road is the charging of EV’s be it a toad or main unit.