How would you all like to participate in a Town Hall webcast with Tony Barthel and myself on this topic? It would stream over YouTube Live as well as a few Facebook groups. And I guarantee that a lot of campground owners will be watching as well.
My 25’ RV has 300Ah of lithium batteries and 520W of solar. Unless air conditioning is needed, I don’t require camp ground power. Let’s each pay for what we use. If the big boys want to charge an EV and run 3 AC’s, by all means go right ahead. I prefer to pay for my space separate from my power bill.
Agreed. I have 400ah of lithium and 570 of solar and a DC to DC charger from my truck to the trailer so I don't need electricity, just water and space, and that's all I want to pay for.
I’m ok with paying for what I use, provided they have upgraded the service to prevent voltage sags. The theory of pay as you use is good, my concern is the campgrounds will see it as another form of increasing cash flow without investing to improve the power delivery system.
I imagine that achieving "full power" for everyone will be part of the upgrade to "smart" pedestals. If you are going to dig the old ones up and replace them you might as well make sure they have enough power. That will work for now but what will be the next big thing ??
AS a campground owner I can assure you that my customers abuse "free electricity" every day. Going out for the day and leaving the AC on while they are gone for 8 hours ?? Sure. Using one or two electric space heaters to keep their rig toasty on chilly nights or to keep it warm while they are out for the day ?? Sure. Leaving outside lights on all night ?? Sure. It all adds up to the largest overhead cost every month we are open.
I get inquiries asking us to stay open through the winter .... really ?? Those same customers would noy pay what it would cost for us to stay open through winter in Wyoming...
I wish there were an easy way to charge out electricity use to transient RVers. The guy with a 60s trailer just using interior lights vs a 45 foot Motor "coach" with three slides and air conditioners that run 24/7 ??
You were right Mike "stir up a little controversy" but it is a discussion that needs to happen.
If they lower the base rate for the campsite and then charge each unit for the power they use, that would be fair. My suspicion, though, is that the site rate will stay the same and they’ll charge for power on top of it.
CG owners have two choices 1raise the daily fee enough to cover electric costs, penalizing low power users, or 2pay the cost to upgrade pedestals so campers pay for what they use. 2 would be the fairest. There might be a 3rd option where they put in separate metered EV chargers in one location. Could be simpler/cheaper than upgrading all their pedestals.
Some complain parks won't lower the rates to reflect low power usage. If you ever go to a park and do not use EVERY piece of equipment that is available, no one has ever lowered the rate due to non use of amenities. Base rates will always apply. They're there to make money.
the rv parks have already included a component in their rates to offset their cist of electricity. it may be a fixed amount per night without any regard to whether any particular rv uses any particular amount of power. the problem i have with the pay as you use concept is that i doubt that there would be a single rv park that lowered their nightly rate by removing the electric cost component that is already built into the rate. in effect you would be paying for the electricity via the component already in the nightly rate and then again with the added metered usage cost. but i suspect this will happen and we'll just end up paying more!
Given comparable RV, family size, occupancy, and site exposure, an unmetered site will use up to 3 times the electricity of a metered site. Also, electricity in one northern state, counting the electricity charge, delivery charge, state sales tax on commercial meters, KW fuel surcharges and peak use metering runs as high as 36 cents per KWH. Almost double your 17 cents per KWH. Site metering is the only fair way to go for both camper and campground operator.
I'm one of the "big boys" with 3 A/C-heat pump units and EVERYTHING electric on my unit, which we live in full time. So I have to assume I am on the high end of the curve. Now, I regularly stay at a camp with a monthly rate that adds electricity charge on top of the monthly charge. For me, that has consistently been around $150 which works out to $5 per day. So the average is probably around $3 and even if the camp decreased their daily rate by that amount, the low users are saving only $3, but you know they would not only not decrease the rate, but would probably increase it because of the cost of putting in the meters.
Unless they opt for the smart meters,(which cost more, so bigger rate increase) then you have to get someone to read the meter when you leave. If not, I can see the following scenario happening: you leave at 6AM, and so your neighbor moves his plug to your pedistal and uses the power on your dime until they leave at 11AM.
There is "reasonably fair" and "exactly fair" which is almost always more expensive for everyone due to the cost of monitoring.
Metering electricity may help keep registration costs lower. In 6 years traveling full-time, the registration costs have nearly tripled as well as fuel costs. I'm sure the parks will lower registration if power is billed separately. (LOL)
I have 210ah lithium 600 watts solar. I also use a 12-12/30 from the motor when running.
How would my camping charge decrease? The daily/weekly charge includes electric. How would that price decrease? Or would that price stay the same and than charge for electricity on top of that?
I say pay for your power requirement / usage and lower the base rate.
If not what’s the incentive to use a campground at all. I find other campsites that better site my needs. Campground pricing has gone through the roof.
We bought RV #5 this past spring, downsizing a bit and adding 800 W of solar panels, 6,480 W of lithium batteries, and a 3,000 W Victron inverter. We can run the everything off the inverter so we don't even plug in for overnight stops anymore. If it saves me a buck or two along the way, I'll take it.
Campgrounds need to charge a reasonable base price then add in power usage. I am concerned they will just use this as a means to increase income and we will all pay more.
How would you all like to participate in a Town Hall webcast with Tony Barthel and myself on this topic? It would stream over YouTube Live as well as a few Facebook groups. And I guarantee that a lot of campground owners will be watching as well.
My 25’ RV has 300Ah of lithium batteries and 520W of solar. Unless air conditioning is needed, I don’t require camp ground power. Let’s each pay for what we use. If the big boys want to charge an EV and run 3 AC’s, by all means go right ahead. I prefer to pay for my space separate from my power bill.
Agreed. I have 400ah of lithium and 570 of solar and a DC to DC charger from my truck to the trailer so I don't need electricity, just water and space, and that's all I want to pay for.
I’m ok with paying for what I use, provided they have upgraded the service to prevent voltage sags. The theory of pay as you use is good, my concern is the campgrounds will see it as another form of increasing cash flow without investing to improve the power delivery system.
I imagine that achieving "full power" for everyone will be part of the upgrade to "smart" pedestals. If you are going to dig the old ones up and replace them you might as well make sure they have enough power. That will work for now but what will be the next big thing ??
AS a campground owner I can assure you that my customers abuse "free electricity" every day. Going out for the day and leaving the AC on while they are gone for 8 hours ?? Sure. Using one or two electric space heaters to keep their rig toasty on chilly nights or to keep it warm while they are out for the day ?? Sure. Leaving outside lights on all night ?? Sure. It all adds up to the largest overhead cost every month we are open.
I get inquiries asking us to stay open through the winter .... really ?? Those same customers would noy pay what it would cost for us to stay open through winter in Wyoming...
I wish there were an easy way to charge out electricity use to transient RVers. The guy with a 60s trailer just using interior lights vs a 45 foot Motor "coach" with three slides and air conditioners that run 24/7 ??
You were right Mike "stir up a little controversy" but it is a discussion that needs to happen.
If they lower the base rate for the campsite and then charge each unit for the power they use, that would be fair. My suspicion, though, is that the site rate will stay the same and they’ll charge for power on top of it.
CG owners have two choices 1raise the daily fee enough to cover electric costs, penalizing low power users, or 2pay the cost to upgrade pedestals so campers pay for what they use. 2 would be the fairest. There might be a 3rd option where they put in separate metered EV chargers in one location. Could be simpler/cheaper than upgrading all their pedestals.
Some complain parks won't lower the rates to reflect low power usage. If you ever go to a park and do not use EVERY piece of equipment that is available, no one has ever lowered the rate due to non use of amenities. Base rates will always apply. They're there to make money.
If they charge for power then the outlets and breakers need to be in very good shape and the voltage needs to be within 110v to 128v at full load.
the rv parks have already included a component in their rates to offset their cist of electricity. it may be a fixed amount per night without any regard to whether any particular rv uses any particular amount of power. the problem i have with the pay as you use concept is that i doubt that there would be a single rv park that lowered their nightly rate by removing the electric cost component that is already built into the rate. in effect you would be paying for the electricity via the component already in the nightly rate and then again with the added metered usage cost. but i suspect this will happen and we'll just end up paying more!
Given comparable RV, family size, occupancy, and site exposure, an unmetered site will use up to 3 times the electricity of a metered site. Also, electricity in one northern state, counting the electricity charge, delivery charge, state sales tax on commercial meters, KW fuel surcharges and peak use metering runs as high as 36 cents per KWH. Almost double your 17 cents per KWH. Site metering is the only fair way to go for both camper and campground operator.
Since campground was bought up how about asking on some of the campground owners group on FB? See what their ideas and feelings are.
I’m setting that up now…
I'm one of the "big boys" with 3 A/C-heat pump units and EVERYTHING electric on my unit, which we live in full time. So I have to assume I am on the high end of the curve. Now, I regularly stay at a camp with a monthly rate that adds electricity charge on top of the monthly charge. For me, that has consistently been around $150 which works out to $5 per day. So the average is probably around $3 and even if the camp decreased their daily rate by that amount, the low users are saving only $3, but you know they would not only not decrease the rate, but would probably increase it because of the cost of putting in the meters.
Unless they opt for the smart meters,(which cost more, so bigger rate increase) then you have to get someone to read the meter when you leave. If not, I can see the following scenario happening: you leave at 6AM, and so your neighbor moves his plug to your pedistal and uses the power on your dime until they leave at 11AM.
There is "reasonably fair" and "exactly fair" which is almost always more expensive for everyone due to the cost of monitoring.
Metering electricity may help keep registration costs lower. In 6 years traveling full-time, the registration costs have nearly tripled as well as fuel costs. I'm sure the parks will lower registration if power is billed separately. (LOL)
I agree and disagree.
I have 210ah lithium 600 watts solar. I also use a 12-12/30 from the motor when running.
How would my camping charge decrease? The daily/weekly charge includes electric. How would that price decrease? Or would that price stay the same and than charge for electricity on top of that?
I say pay for your power requirement / usage and lower the base rate.
If not what’s the incentive to use a campground at all. I find other campsites that better site my needs. Campground pricing has gone through the roof.
We bought RV #5 this past spring, downsizing a bit and adding 800 W of solar panels, 6,480 W of lithium batteries, and a 3,000 W Victron inverter. We can run the everything off the inverter so we don't even plug in for overnight stops anymore. If it saves me a buck or two along the way, I'll take it.
Campgrounds need to charge a reasonable base price then add in power usage. I am concerned they will just use this as a means to increase income and we will all pay more.