That's good stuff and puts EV at around 4X as efficient at a gas car. Next math problem.
Lets look at the power plants. How many BTU's of coal, NG or whatever does a power plant burn to not just generate, but sell a KWH of power? My feeling on this is based on me living in FL and watching the Manatee's hang out near the power plants because they have warmed up the entire bay with cooling water discharge!
Back in the ‘70s the huge packaging plant I worked at converted our heating boilers to dual fuel so they could use either oil or natural gas. Those were the times of gasoline shortages and $2 limits at gas stations. My boss and I created a set of equations that calculated the costs of heating the building from various energy sources including electricity. And we went up the energy path to calculate things like how much coal was needed to make how many kWh of electricity and how much kWh was lost in the electrical grid, etc…
This took weeks of brain work to do, but we were able to come up some basic concepts of how energy harvesting and transmission really worked. It would take me months to figure out all the variables for heat pumps and EV charging and Lithium mining, but if I had the budget and time I could do a study of the current energy distribution challenges.
I think maybe that could be simplified like this. How much coal, NG whatever does power company X buy vs how much electricity do they sell. I know there is more to it because of connected grids but I think this would give a pretty good idea of how efficient the Industry is. Since they are Public Service Companies this info should be available. Not concerned with money, just BTU's and KWH.
When I did my energy comparison back in the ‘70s, I did a presentation and converted energy units into gallons of gasoline, gallons of oil, gallons of electricity, gallons of coal, etc…
It was the simplest way to show management the cost differences between the various energy sources.
I found that FPL as an example Sold 126,709 GWH in 2022. 76% of which was generated with NG. I cant seem to find the number for how much NG they bought in 2022 which would be the last number needed for a basic approximation without diving into the weeds.
I made a public records request and got a very fast reply. FPL burns 7500 BTU's/KWH generated. ( They sent a full report, probably 20 some pages of spread sheets) That's actually not terrible. About 50% efficient. Only question left is how much of that do they actually sell.
Have you read my ID.4 towing tests? Or my calculations of propane vs battery energy storage densities? Actually I just try to report the science with as little bias as possible.
I don’t believe we’re ready for EVs just yet since the US power grid needs serious updating, and battery density is still far behind what’s needed to compete with ICE driving range and refueling times. Plus domestic sources of Lithium and other metals needs to happen.
But there’s a lot of very smart people working on these challenges. Consider how far we’ve come from the carbon cell batteries of the ‘60s. Plus computer power and communication speeds have grown exponentially over the last 6 decades as well. I think that widespread adoption of EV transportation is probably 20 years out, and by that time all the technology hurdles hopefully will be solved.
We need domestic production instead of importing lithium. If we can get domestic production underway the pricing of the batteries should come way down. Look at how computer prices have come down so far over the years.
Right now I still have three 8D AGM batteries that are only 3 years old. I want to move to Lithium, but will wait for further price reductions.
A Canadian based Lithium exploration company is shooting for domestic lithium in AZ, NV and Canada.
I am very interested in seeing any info on US production and exploration so we can get prices down on high end battery systems for our RVs and various electronic devices.
That's good stuff and puts EV at around 4X as efficient at a gas car. Next math problem.
Lets look at the power plants. How many BTU's of coal, NG or whatever does a power plant burn to not just generate, but sell a KWH of power? My feeling on this is based on me living in FL and watching the Manatee's hang out near the power plants because they have warmed up the entire bay with cooling water discharge!
Back in the ‘70s the huge packaging plant I worked at converted our heating boilers to dual fuel so they could use either oil or natural gas. Those were the times of gasoline shortages and $2 limits at gas stations. My boss and I created a set of equations that calculated the costs of heating the building from various energy sources including electricity. And we went up the energy path to calculate things like how much coal was needed to make how many kWh of electricity and how much kWh was lost in the electrical grid, etc…
This took weeks of brain work to do, but we were able to come up some basic concepts of how energy harvesting and transmission really worked. It would take me months to figure out all the variables for heat pumps and EV charging and Lithium mining, but if I had the budget and time I could do a study of the current energy distribution challenges.
I think maybe that could be simplified like this. How much coal, NG whatever does power company X buy vs how much electricity do they sell. I know there is more to it because of connected grids but I think this would give a pretty good idea of how efficient the Industry is. Since they are Public Service Companies this info should be available. Not concerned with money, just BTU's and KWH.
When I did my energy comparison back in the ‘70s, I did a presentation and converted energy units into gallons of gasoline, gallons of oil, gallons of electricity, gallons of coal, etc…
It was the simplest way to show management the cost differences between the various energy sources.
I found that FPL as an example Sold 126,709 GWH in 2022. 76% of which was generated with NG. I cant seem to find the number for how much NG they bought in 2022 which would be the last number needed for a basic approximation without diving into the weeds.
I made a public records request and got a very fast reply. FPL burns 7500 BTU's/KWH generated. ( They sent a full report, probably 20 some pages of spread sheets) That's actually not terrible. About 50% efficient. Only question left is how much of that do they actually sell.
Through most of your articles I find a bias of Pro EV.
Have you read my ID.4 towing tests? Or my calculations of propane vs battery energy storage densities? Actually I just try to report the science with as little bias as possible.
I don’t believe we’re ready for EVs just yet since the US power grid needs serious updating, and battery density is still far behind what’s needed to compete with ICE driving range and refueling times. Plus domestic sources of Lithium and other metals needs to happen.
But there’s a lot of very smart people working on these challenges. Consider how far we’ve come from the carbon cell batteries of the ‘60s. Plus computer power and communication speeds have grown exponentially over the last 6 decades as well. I think that widespread adoption of EV transportation is probably 20 years out, and by that time all the technology hurdles hopefully will be solved.
Is 15¢/kwh your full cost for power?
In Alberta, I pay 12.5¢/kwh for power, but another 17¢ for delivery, taxes and office expenses. 29.4¢ total.
In Maryland it lists at 10 cents per kWh, but the various delivery and surcharges from Potomac Edison brings it up to 15 cents per kWh.
Wow, we really deserve a kiss with that.
We need domestic production instead of importing lithium. If we can get domestic production underway the pricing of the batteries should come way down. Look at how computer prices have come down so far over the years.
Right now I still have three 8D AGM batteries that are only 3 years old. I want to move to Lithium, but will wait for further price reductions.
A Canadian based Lithium exploration company is shooting for domestic lithium in AZ, NV and Canada.
In Wilcox AZ, they have a huge footprint exploration. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/max-power-commences-drilling-lithium-130000587.html
https://www.maxpowermining.com/
I’ll be posting about the Salton Sea Lithium extraction project later this week.
Good deal.
I am very interested in seeing any info on US production and exploration so we can get prices down on high end battery systems for our RVs and various electronic devices.