I've read all of your articles I can find on this topic and you have noted several times that NOT having that N-G bond can make troubleshooting tricky, which makes sense. But, are there any safety concerns when powering a single RV with a portable generator with no N-G bond? Something that confused me was your discussion about the GFCI outlet operation in your J.A.M dated 9/25/22. There, you state,
"It’s true… A GFCI powered by a generator with a floating neutral won’t trip if you make contact between an energized surface and the RV chassis ground plane.
But that’s because there’s no fault current to unbalance the GFCI sense circuit and cause it to trip. So while the GFCI won’t trip, there’s actually no danger of getting a shock because there’s no fault current flow."
I'm not sure I understand those statements. Can you elaborate on this?
I understand the need for grounding and how the bonding is (or should be) accomplished, but I'm an old-ish retired submarine guy who worked with ungrounded systems for over 20 years, so I'm still trying to fully get my head around some of these grounding topics.
Thank You for all your " ideas". Unfortunately, my Golf cart is in Storage and inaccessible until Spring.
We live in Canada, my Cart is in a storage trailer, behind a snow bank. I will , when I can, do the things all over again according to your thoughts and get back to you, probably April sometime. Really appreciate you taking the time to offer some valuable procedures. George.
The Generator works fine on a resistive load, for example , Electric heater[s]. When using a tester all three lights show, ground is good when using Generator on heaters, OR on Golf cart charger.
The Charger " Meter " shows NOTHING, stays at Zero. Gen set indicates NO " load " sound as it will when connected to a resistive load such as a heater. Eco mode can be on or off, no difference.
Just a thought… is the generator going into overload mode and shutting off AC output when you plug in the charger? If you plug in a test load along with the charger does the test load stay energized?
Charger does not indicate any charge on the meter. Generator produces NO " load " sound as it normally would for use on Electric heater for example. Yes Have a tester, shows all OK.
How does the charger react on the generator? Does the genny shut down, or does the charger simply not operate? Do you have a 3-light outlet tester you can plug into the extra generator outlet to confirm ground bonding after everything is hooked up?
Mike in this article you refer to the Rv transfer switch seeing generator or shore power mode (as it relates to grounding). My question is - I have been told that in the event of a transfer switch failure, the shore and generator inputs can be reversed to allow shore power to pass thru the default generator position. Will doing so have an effect on how the ground is handled? Thank you
Every ATS I’ve looked at in the field simply had the N-G bond on the generator itself. So it should not matter if you reverse the shore and generator power inputs on the relay/contactor. But it’s best to check to be sure.
Hello and Thank you. I have a " Club Car " Power drive Charger -Computer controlled, " All intelligent Charger "# 52338-17930 number on the nameplate. All above info is on the plate.
There are are SIX - 8 VOLT lead acid batteries. I trust this will assist you.
I have a inverter for my RV that will run off my battery in case we loose park power for any length of time (have to make coffee!). During the winter, i bring in my battery and keep it on a trickle charge. I also bring in my inverter just in case I may need it during a winter storm power outage. I setup my furnace so that it would be plugged into the inverter, but it will not work. It indicates that there is an open ground in the circuit. I have seen numerous articles indicating that this is a problem with furnaces and inverters/generators.
Would this gadget be an answer for this problem as well?
I have a " Club Car Golf Cart Charger " " Power Drive "- Computer controlled " All intelligent charger #52338-17930 All info taken from the nameplate. There are SIX. 8volt lead acid batteries.
Along this subject line, it would be interesting to know why my Magnum charger/inverter (2000 watt) went into overheat alarm status while I was using my Honda 2200i generator to charge my 540 AH bank of AGM batteries. There was no other draw on the system while I was charging. The Honda was on Eco Mode at the time and evidently couldn't understand the necessary amount of amps needed by the Magnum to bulk charge the half-discharged (12.1 V) batteries. Why won't the Honda in Eco Mode go full speed during bulk charging, then drop down automatically when float was achieved? I'm sure others have this problem.
Hi Mike,
I've read all of your articles I can find on this topic and you have noted several times that NOT having that N-G bond can make troubleshooting tricky, which makes sense. But, are there any safety concerns when powering a single RV with a portable generator with no N-G bond? Something that confused me was your discussion about the GFCI outlet operation in your J.A.M dated 9/25/22. There, you state,
"It’s true… A GFCI powered by a generator with a floating neutral won’t trip if you make contact between an energized surface and the RV chassis ground plane.
But that’s because there’s no fault current to unbalance the GFCI sense circuit and cause it to trip. So while the GFCI won’t trip, there’s actually no danger of getting a shock because there’s no fault current flow."
I'm not sure I understand those statements. Can you elaborate on this?
I understand the need for grounding and how the bonding is (or should be) accomplished, but I'm an old-ish retired submarine guy who worked with ungrounded systems for over 20 years, so I'm still trying to fully get my head around some of these grounding topics.
Thank you, in advance.
Thank You for all your " ideas". Unfortunately, my Golf cart is in Storage and inaccessible until Spring.
We live in Canada, my Cart is in a storage trailer, behind a snow bank. I will , when I can, do the things all over again according to your thoughts and get back to you, probably April sometime. Really appreciate you taking the time to offer some valuable procedures. George.
The Generator works fine on a resistive load, for example , Electric heater[s]. When using a tester all three lights show, ground is good when using Generator on heaters, OR on Golf cart charger.
The Charger " Meter " shows NOTHING, stays at Zero. Gen set indicates NO " load " sound as it will when connected to a resistive load such as a heater. Eco mode can be on or off, no difference.
Just a thought… is the generator going into overload mode and shutting off AC output when you plug in the charger? If you plug in a test load along with the charger does the test load stay energized?
Charger does not indicate any charge on the meter. Generator produces NO " load " sound as it normally would for use on Electric heater for example. Yes Have a tester, shows all OK.
Are you plugging the charger directly into the 20-amp outlet on the Honda? Or is there an adapter or extension cord in the mix?
NO cord: plugged in directly from Charger cord. Charger works fine when plugged into 20 Amp 110v outlet.
Let me think on this…
Note of interest: Generator produces well. eg: use it on two electric 1500w heaters, no problem.
Factory made from Southwire.
How does the charger react on the generator? Does the genny shut down, or does the charger simply not operate? Do you have a 3-light outlet tester you can plug into the extra generator outlet to confirm ground bonding after everything is hooked up?
Mike in this article you refer to the Rv transfer switch seeing generator or shore power mode (as it relates to grounding). My question is - I have been told that in the event of a transfer switch failure, the shore and generator inputs can be reversed to allow shore power to pass thru the default generator position. Will doing so have an effect on how the ground is handled? Thank you
Every ATS I’ve looked at in the field simply had the N-G bond on the generator itself. So it should not matter if you reverse the shore and generator power inputs on the relay/contactor. But it’s best to check to be sure.
Hello and Thank you. I have a " Club Car " Power drive Charger -Computer controlled, " All intelligent Charger "# 52338-17930 number on the nameplate. All above info is on the plate.
There are are SIX - 8 VOLT lead acid batteries. I trust this will assist you.
George.
I have a inverter for my RV that will run off my battery in case we loose park power for any length of time (have to make coffee!). During the winter, i bring in my battery and keep it on a trickle charge. I also bring in my inverter just in case I may need it during a winter storm power outage. I setup my furnace so that it would be plugged into the inverter, but it will not work. It indicates that there is an open ground in the circuit. I have seen numerous articles indicating that this is a problem with furnaces and inverters/generators.
Would this gadget be an answer for this problem as well?
(LOVE your newsletters!)
Yes, I’ve seen that many modern furnaces won’t operate from a floating neutral inverter. My Neutral-Ground bonding plug should solve that problem.
Why will my Honda 3000w Generator not operate a battery charger for my Club Car golf cart when using the " grounding Plug " you invented ?
Thanks. George Fleck
What brand and model charger are you using? How many and what type of batteries?
I have a " Club Car Golf Cart Charger " " Power Drive "- Computer controlled " All intelligent charger #52338-17930 All info taken from the nameplate. There are SIX. 8volt lead acid batteries.
Thank You for your reply
George.
Hi: Can I please get your opinion on the preceding ?
Thanks
George.
Is that a factory-made N/G bonding plug, or did you wire it yourself?
Factory made. Bought from Southwire.
Let me think on it a bit. I’m sure it’s something simple.
Like this one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225440332081?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=delGLE89Qk-&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=vm91WcoAQDq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Yes , identical it seems.
Along this subject line, it would be interesting to know why my Magnum charger/inverter (2000 watt) went into overheat alarm status while I was using my Honda 2200i generator to charge my 540 AH bank of AGM batteries. There was no other draw on the system while I was charging. The Honda was on Eco Mode at the time and evidently couldn't understand the necessary amount of amps needed by the Magnum to bulk charge the half-discharged (12.1 V) batteries. Why won't the Honda in Eco Mode go full speed during bulk charging, then drop down automatically when float was achieved? I'm sure others have this problem.