The other thing to consider is the possibility of bi-directional charging. That would allow your EV’s 75kWh to 100kWh battery to act as PowerWall storage for your home solar system. More to study…
Sooner or later, the states are going to have to tax or charge a high yearly fee on EVs. If EVs, which are heavier vehicles, aren't paying a gas tax but are using the highways, the cost to build and maintain the roadways will have to come from somewhere.
That’s true, someone has to pay for the roads. The price of gasoline includes a state road tax, which in Maryland is 42.3 cents per gallon. You would have to calculate gas tax per mile of an ICE vehicle and then use that number to somehow tax EV mileage used, which would likely show up as an extra yearly charge on EV license plates. I’m just spitballing here, so please don’t quote me on this.
Pretty costly for me to go down this road. For a level 2 charger at my house I will need: new upgraded service from utility, new service entrance panel & feed from meter, new subpanel & feed from service entrance panel. Then breaker and feed to the charger in garage plus cost of the level 2 charger. $$$$$. Not in my retirement budget.
Mike, thanks a lot for all the great information. The I’ve learned a great deal.
My concern about EV is we only have a small percentage of our grid being powered by renewables as yet. So if we use fossil fuels to get the electricity to power our EVs and we loose a substantial amount of energy every time it is converted is it an efficient use of energy. Wouldn’t we be better putting the fossil fuels directly in our cars and skip a step?
I believe to get a full cost analysis of charging at home you will need to factor in the cost of installing a receptacle in the vehicle parking area by an electrician. There could be a few factors to this expense such as just the receptacle install, a new panel install due to various reasons such as breakers are no longer available for the panel, the panel falls into the category as unsafe such as a Federal Pacific, Challenger, fused box, and a few others, low capacity such as an 60 amp panel (replaced 1 in a rental property purchased 2 years ago), or the additional load will put the system over the 80% service factor. Some of these scenarios could end up costing $2,000-$3,000 or more depending on the area.
In Washington County Maryland, new house construction by a developer requires that they install a dedicated 50-amp, 240-volt receptacle in the garage area for future EV charging.
That’s the cheapest way of doing it, we are also seeing that in some of the municipality’s in my area of Central Pennsylvania, more than likely they will be the minority of new EV owners. I have also been hearing that some vehicle lending institutions are factoring in the cost of the power connection to the car in the loan. Factor in the cost to install a charging plug and interest rate on a vehicle loan over 4-5 years and it puts the cost somewhat higher for the charging/KW. I have no idea how you will be able to get the average cost to charge an EV when factoring in all of the peripheral cost. A wealthy friend of mine added additional solar panels and lithium batteries to charge his Tesla. I asked him how much is it costing to charge it and he said he did not really care and it made him happy, too each their own 👏👏👏👏.
I have a Tesla and use the APP 'Optiwatt' to track cost to charge and it also shows what it would cost to do the same miles using Fossil Fuel. It allows you to enter the exact cost of your electricity from your provider and also the charges you encountered when charging at a commercial charging location such as Tesla. After some research it is very accurate and if you do most charging at home the savings between Gas and electricity is substantial.
Check with the guy who has the "Out of spec Reviews" YouTube channel. (Kyle Conner)He has done extensive research on EVs and especially the charging infrastructure. He is probably The Person to ask about all things EV.
Outstanding topic that really needs good honest science review. Battery technology has advanced in the last decade, however the minerals for these batteries is not easy to acquire and large mining operations are needed.
Lithium batteries need to stay above freezing to keep and maintain charge, as the temp drops how much vampire loss will be needed to warm the batteries with heaters for this to occur?
I'm encouraged by the hydrogen fuel cell charging systems technology I've been reading about, any chance someone would provide one to add to the test bench? I won't hold my breath as they are very expensive $30K to 50K. They are still a decade away from any real consumer testing.
I have an invite to visit the Salton Sea Lithium extraction pilot plant in California this year.
And some EV manufacturers are changing over to Lithium Iron-Phosphate (LFP) batteries don’t require Nickel or other exotic materials like Lithium-Ion batteries do. Plus LFP batteries don’t seem to be prone to explosive meltdowns like Lithium-Ion batteries can be if incorrectly charged or mishandled.
Interesting article. They talk about heat depleting the battery but nothing is written about extreme cold.
Your new england states and upper US states get mighty cold.
Your lower states get mighty hot. Many southern homes don't have garages so how can they park out of the sun. Our grid is outdated, an article stated it would take 20 years to update.
And if they want to push EV, why aren't they looking at solar roofs,trunk, hood. Or better yet. Some type of regeneration generator that functions as the tires rotate. And like gas, as the demand goes up, so will the price. This year alone my gas and electric bill have tripled and I'm not using anymore than I did last year.
Just my outside looking in view. Thanks for all the great articles.
The other thing to consider is the possibility of bi-directional charging. That would allow your EV’s 75kWh to 100kWh battery to act as PowerWall storage for your home solar system. More to study…
Sooner or later, the states are going to have to tax or charge a high yearly fee on EVs. If EVs, which are heavier vehicles, aren't paying a gas tax but are using the highways, the cost to build and maintain the roadways will have to come from somewhere.
That’s true, someone has to pay for the roads. The price of gasoline includes a state road tax, which in Maryland is 42.3 cents per gallon. You would have to calculate gas tax per mile of an ICE vehicle and then use that number to somehow tax EV mileage used, which would likely show up as an extra yearly charge on EV license plates. I’m just spitballing here, so please don’t quote me on this.
Pretty costly for me to go down this road. For a level 2 charger at my house I will need: new upgraded service from utility, new service entrance panel & feed from meter, new subpanel & feed from service entrance panel. Then breaker and feed to the charger in garage plus cost of the level 2 charger. $$$$$. Not in my retirement budget.
Mike, thanks a lot for all the great information. The I’ve learned a great deal.
My concern about EV is we only have a small percentage of our grid being powered by renewables as yet. So if we use fossil fuels to get the electricity to power our EVs and we loose a substantial amount of energy every time it is converted is it an efficient use of energy. Wouldn’t we be better putting the fossil fuels directly in our cars and skip a step?
It’s not as simple as that, which is why I’m doing a study on the full life cycle of fossil energy being used for ICE vs EV technology.
I believe to get a full cost analysis of charging at home you will need to factor in the cost of installing a receptacle in the vehicle parking area by an electrician. There could be a few factors to this expense such as just the receptacle install, a new panel install due to various reasons such as breakers are no longer available for the panel, the panel falls into the category as unsafe such as a Federal Pacific, Challenger, fused box, and a few others, low capacity such as an 60 amp panel (replaced 1 in a rental property purchased 2 years ago), or the additional load will put the system over the 80% service factor. Some of these scenarios could end up costing $2,000-$3,000 or more depending on the area.
In Washington County Maryland, new house construction by a developer requires that they install a dedicated 50-amp, 240-volt receptacle in the garage area for future EV charging.
That’s the cheapest way of doing it, we are also seeing that in some of the municipality’s in my area of Central Pennsylvania, more than likely they will be the minority of new EV owners. I have also been hearing that some vehicle lending institutions are factoring in the cost of the power connection to the car in the loan. Factor in the cost to install a charging plug and interest rate on a vehicle loan over 4-5 years and it puts the cost somewhat higher for the charging/KW. I have no idea how you will be able to get the average cost to charge an EV when factoring in all of the peripheral cost. A wealthy friend of mine added additional solar panels and lithium batteries to charge his Tesla. I asked him how much is it costing to charge it and he said he did not really care and it made him happy, too each their own 👏👏👏👏.
I have a Tesla and use the APP 'Optiwatt' to track cost to charge and it also shows what it would cost to do the same miles using Fossil Fuel. It allows you to enter the exact cost of your electricity from your provider and also the charges you encountered when charging at a commercial charging location such as Tesla. After some research it is very accurate and if you do most charging at home the savings between Gas and electricity is substantial.
Check with the guy who has the "Out of spec Reviews" YouTube channel. (Kyle Conner)He has done extensive research on EVs and especially the charging infrastructure. He is probably The Person to ask about all things EV.
Outstanding topic that really needs good honest science review. Battery technology has advanced in the last decade, however the minerals for these batteries is not easy to acquire and large mining operations are needed.
Lithium batteries need to stay above freezing to keep and maintain charge, as the temp drops how much vampire loss will be needed to warm the batteries with heaters for this to occur?
I'm encouraged by the hydrogen fuel cell charging systems technology I've been reading about, any chance someone would provide one to add to the test bench? I won't hold my breath as they are very expensive $30K to 50K. They are still a decade away from any real consumer testing.
Keep up the great discussions and test data.
I have an invite to visit the Salton Sea Lithium extraction pilot plant in California this year.
And some EV manufacturers are changing over to Lithium Iron-Phosphate (LFP) batteries don’t require Nickel or other exotic materials like Lithium-Ion batteries do. Plus LFP batteries don’t seem to be prone to explosive meltdowns like Lithium-Ion batteries can be if incorrectly charged or mishandled.
Much to study…
Interesting article. They talk about heat depleting the battery but nothing is written about extreme cold.
Your new england states and upper US states get mighty cold.
Your lower states get mighty hot. Many southern homes don't have garages so how can they park out of the sun. Our grid is outdated, an article stated it would take 20 years to update.
And if they want to push EV, why aren't they looking at solar roofs,trunk, hood. Or better yet. Some type of regeneration generator that functions as the tires rotate. And like gas, as the demand goes up, so will the price. This year alone my gas and electric bill have tripled and I'm not using anymore than I did last year.
Just my outside looking in view. Thanks for all the great articles.
West Texas, New Mexico, Arizona. Lots of solar, little civilization. Just saying. Can you hitchkike with an empty battery?