OK, that puts a different complexion on things. Multiple service actions in a single call (impossible with a roll-back) would be a huge advantage. I've wondered about this whole scenario for some time (I own a Volvo EV), and the big wild card is, How much "spare gas can range" would a typical road-side rescue need? 20 miles? 50 miles. Interesting puzzle.
The bottom line to this entire EV vs ICE issue requires a well though out comprehensive plan with time tables addressing all of the issues associated such a transition. I would task the Transportation Secretary, if we had a real one, to head such an endeavor. This country is justing off edge without a plan.
Enjoy your articles. Right on the reality of dealing with electricity.
However, your stance on electric vehicles(EV) is not dealing with reality. EV for city and relatively close suburbs is reasonable. For long trips, in excess of 250-300 miles, then ICE is the only feasible method of private transportation.
The national grid is pretty much at capacity. Full load means that there is no excess capacity available. Every power plant needs at least annual and two year maintenance outage. Then come the long inteval maintaince inspections which run up to 8-10weeks. Therefore every utility/grid operator tries for spring and fall outage time. What happens when there is no longer excess capacity due EV charging?
I still advocate hybrid vehicles. Minimal "carbon footprint", range not a problem. Constant speed ICE for max efficiency.
Bill, I really don’t have a stance on electric vehicles. I focus on the science and engineering (and sometimes marketing) of them. But I do think that the industry is over-promising and under-delivering on them. Pure EVs are not the 100% solution to transportation right simply due to the state of the power grid. And yes, I’ve noted many times that a Plug-In Hybrid is probably the most practical solution for at least the next decade. We live in interesting times!
It amazes when people whip out an empty gas can, when they run out of gas, then try to hitch a ride to a gas station. That empty gas can (fumes) were far more explosive than a full gas can.
If they can remember to put a gas can in the vehicle, why can'tdsss they remember to fill the vehicle w/fuel. ICE vehicles have remaining range calculations. This is EV version. The vehicle tells you if/when you'll need a charge for the next leg, and exactly how far you can make it.
Sometimes you need to factor in adverse conditions, such as potential snowstorms where you are going to inch along drawing your battery down.
If you need a tow, because you failed to follow recommended charge station stop - you get a tow. At some point technology will improve, emergency roadside will have more power on board,
Consider the ice storm on I95 last winter where hundreds of cars were stranded and towing wasn’t possible. Plus a tow or flatbed rescue is one vehicle at a time, while a portable battery or generator charger could service a dozen of more EV motorists per day without towing anyone back to a charger which could be dozens of miles away.
Oh! What a dream land our politicians live in. The cost of adding EV rescue to an individual's road side rescue plan must be equal to it's cost. I'm not in favor of my paying for you to charge your EV on the side of the road at my expense.
I’m sure this would be an AAA thing just like traditional towing or a few gallons of gasoline. So if you don’t have AAA, then you better have a credit card.😁
Thank you. Too many people are thinking with their heart. They live in a fantasy world where everything is possible . They feel they should have anything they want. In the real world things are different.
Good to see you bring up this topic Mike, as some kind of emergency, portable fast charging is required as more and more EVs hit the road - especially in winter. It's been kind of a joke for years to see pictures of a Tesla carrying around a Honda portable generator - just in case. But the need is real - making the opportunity for solutions even more so. I suspect that AAA will have to begin carrying around some sort of mobile charging (if they don't already), in addition to their emergency battery trucks which have been around for decades. The future of SparkCharge looks very bright!
I'm no fan of electric vehicles but why couldn't electric vehicles have some kind of constant drive generator. If they are moving, something is turning, so it seems there ought to be some way to keep the vehicle charged while it is moving.
There was a Volkswagen EV Rabbit (I think) about 10 years ago in Europe that had a small constant speed diesel generator it used to recharge the battery. IIRC it obtained around 70 MPG in American units. But the DieselGate happened and it disappeared. Would have been a great option, I think.
I though the idea with EV transportation was to reduce the carbon emission. But your idea, even if practical, using a very large diesel generator defeats the whole idea. I believe there is a place for EV transportation but I do not believe with current technology ICE transportation will go away in next 20 years as some would suggest. Live in a city and travel a few miles a day, EV could possibility be appealing. What I never see discussed is the current cost of the electricity for EV transportation, the US electrical grid infrastructure, and the time it would take to fully charge an EV. In my opinion this ”New Green Deal” is nothing more than a way for these Politicians to use their influence to try to move the population in a direction which has all the signs of failure. In the end, only the politicians will benefit because they will most likely have some type of monetary connection to the EV movement. Research the Solar Panel debacle under Obama administration. Also look at the cost of EV. I priced Tesla at over a $110,000. It has been said EV requires very little maintenance. Electronic’s fail and when they fail the cost of repair can be over the top.
Mike, the time to come out and charge an EV (and then go back to recharge the battery pack) would seem about the same as the time to come out, load the EV on a roll-back, and carry it to a charge station. Not obvious that the extra investment would pay off. Also, you didn't mention a smaller generator (10KW-15KW?), which would charge maybe 20 miles in a half-hour. Could be an affordable compromise.
The F-150 PowerBoost generator will be able to recharge multiple power packs in the back of the truck while driving. You could fit 8 of these SparkCharge Roadie batteries in a F-150 with room to spare. Plus I’ve tested this with the PowerBoost truck loaned me last year. The on-board 7.2kW inverter generator can be enabled while driving. I used my 10kW load bank to confirm this.
It’s going to be much cheaper to connect a portable battery pack to an EV compared to getting a rollback to transport your EV to a charging spot. Plus I’m considering winter ice storms where there could be dozens to hundreds of stranded motorists like happened on I95 near DC last winter.
Smaller 12kW generators are a possibility, but you still need a Level-2 charger to make this work. I have a portable Level-2 charger to try this, but I need a loaner EV to experiment on. Much to do…
Allstate has a big presence on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and also along many of the major routes in California.
Mark Cuban has money invested in Sparkcharge, you can purchase rescue plans starting at $25-$80.00/ month depending on how many charges you want per month.
Good to see someone is thinking about problems with EV ownership. I am all for protecting the environment . We must or we will perish. In my part of the world a lot of electricity is generated from coal. When you plug your EV in to charge do not forget to shovel in some coal . To all those pushing for EV's , please do some research for yourself. Do not blindly follow the heard.
That’s not going to happen. The vehicle manufacturers have already invested billions in EV technology and marketing. It will be a slow rollout, but I think it’s going to happen. Fingers crossed that the US power grid and energy production can be upgraded in time to make it work.
Besides the upgrading of the electrical distribution network (especially the underground network) there are huge issues for at home charging for those that live in condo complexes and intercity homeowners without a driveway or garage, and we cannot forget the apartment dwellers. In some areas we will be looking at new transmission lines, new substations, substation additions and also new distribution lines that have the potential of costing tens of millions of dollars. Going back 8 years ago before retirement from a major east coast utility A new 230,000-500,000 volt transmission line average cost was about 1.2 million dollars per mile and took many many years to get all the permitting and right away issues taken care of. A distribution line was about $250 to $350,000 per mile for overhead and $500,000 plus for underground, permitting and right away many times took longer due to usually being in a more densely populated areas. New substations were difficult for permits and right away due to push back from the not in my backyard argument. And then we have California that has all there own problems.
They have invested Billions of our tax dollars because the government is subsidizing this move to EV. What we have never seen from the current administration is a comprehensive detail plan with time tables to move from ICE to EV. Such a plan would need to address electrical grid infrastructure upgrade to meet increased demand and whole array of other issues. The Administration jumped off the bridge without a life jacket and we are suppose to sit back and accept it. NO WAY. When you have inept Politicians you get inept results.
It will be interesting to see what the thoughts and sales will be for EV’s going forward after this past weeks big freeze. Many cases of EV’s dying in the cold and not being able to charge them due to being way to cold for the battery to accept a charge and also power outages. I believe that they will be a very hard sell in the very cold northern areas of the country using current battery technology
OK, that puts a different complexion on things. Multiple service actions in a single call (impossible with a roll-back) would be a huge advantage. I've wondered about this whole scenario for some time (I own a Volvo EV), and the big wild card is, How much "spare gas can range" would a typical road-side rescue need? 20 miles? 50 miles. Interesting puzzle.
An example of no electrical connection to the grid charging using fuel cells.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/industrials/general-motors-hydrogen-generators-electric-car-chargers-military
The bottom line to this entire EV vs ICE issue requires a well though out comprehensive plan with time tables addressing all of the issues associated such a transition. I would task the Transportation Secretary, if we had a real one, to head such an endeavor. This country is justing off edge without a plan.
Mike
Enjoy your articles. Right on the reality of dealing with electricity.
However, your stance on electric vehicles(EV) is not dealing with reality. EV for city and relatively close suburbs is reasonable. For long trips, in excess of 250-300 miles, then ICE is the only feasible method of private transportation.
The national grid is pretty much at capacity. Full load means that there is no excess capacity available. Every power plant needs at least annual and two year maintenance outage. Then come the long inteval maintaince inspections which run up to 8-10weeks. Therefore every utility/grid operator tries for spring and fall outage time. What happens when there is no longer excess capacity due EV charging?
I still advocate hybrid vehicles. Minimal "carbon footprint", range not a problem. Constant speed ICE for max efficiency.
Bill, I really don’t have a stance on electric vehicles. I focus on the science and engineering (and sometimes marketing) of them. But I do think that the industry is over-promising and under-delivering on them. Pure EVs are not the 100% solution to transportation right simply due to the state of the power grid. And yes, I’ve noted many times that a Plug-In Hybrid is probably the most practical solution for at least the next decade. We live in interesting times!
It amazes when people whip out an empty gas can, when they run out of gas, then try to hitch a ride to a gas station. That empty gas can (fumes) were far more explosive than a full gas can.
If they can remember to put a gas can in the vehicle, why can'tdsss they remember to fill the vehicle w/fuel. ICE vehicles have remaining range calculations. This is EV version. The vehicle tells you if/when you'll need a charge for the next leg, and exactly how far you can make it.
Sometimes you need to factor in adverse conditions, such as potential snowstorms where you are going to inch along drawing your battery down.
If you need a tow, because you failed to follow recommended charge station stop - you get a tow. At some point technology will improve, emergency roadside will have more power on board,
Why not just tow the car to a charger and be done with it, and the tow guy can move on to the next call? Why do we need to complicate it?
Consider the ice storm on I95 last winter where hundreds of cars were stranded and towing wasn’t possible. Plus a tow or flatbed rescue is one vehicle at a time, while a portable battery or generator charger could service a dozen of more EV motorists per day without towing anyone back to a charger which could be dozens of miles away.
Oh! What a dream land our politicians live in. The cost of adding EV rescue to an individual's road side rescue plan must be equal to it's cost. I'm not in favor of my paying for you to charge your EV on the side of the road at my expense.
I’m sure this would be an AAA thing just like traditional towing or a few gallons of gasoline. So if you don’t have AAA, then you better have a credit card.😁
Thank you. Too many people are thinking with their heart. They live in a fantasy world where everything is possible . They feel they should have anything they want. In the real world things are different.
Good to see you bring up this topic Mike, as some kind of emergency, portable fast charging is required as more and more EVs hit the road - especially in winter. It's been kind of a joke for years to see pictures of a Tesla carrying around a Honda portable generator - just in case. But the need is real - making the opportunity for solutions even more so. I suspect that AAA will have to begin carrying around some sort of mobile charging (if they don't already), in addition to their emergency battery trucks which have been around for decades. The future of SparkCharge looks very bright!
I'm no fan of electric vehicles but why couldn't electric vehicles have some kind of constant drive generator. If they are moving, something is turning, so it seems there ought to be some way to keep the vehicle charged while it is moving.
There was a Volkswagen EV Rabbit (I think) about 10 years ago in Europe that had a small constant speed diesel generator it used to recharge the battery. IIRC it obtained around 70 MPG in American units. But the DieselGate happened and it disappeared. Would have been a great option, I think.
I though the idea with EV transportation was to reduce the carbon emission. But your idea, even if practical, using a very large diesel generator defeats the whole idea. I believe there is a place for EV transportation but I do not believe with current technology ICE transportation will go away in next 20 years as some would suggest. Live in a city and travel a few miles a day, EV could possibility be appealing. What I never see discussed is the current cost of the electricity for EV transportation, the US electrical grid infrastructure, and the time it would take to fully charge an EV. In my opinion this ”New Green Deal” is nothing more than a way for these Politicians to use their influence to try to move the population in a direction which has all the signs of failure. In the end, only the politicians will benefit because they will most likely have some type of monetary connection to the EV movement. Research the Solar Panel debacle under Obama administration. Also look at the cost of EV. I priced Tesla at over a $110,000. It has been said EV requires very little maintenance. Electronic’s fail and when they fail the cost of repair can be over the top.
You can now buy a EV with a 300+ mile range for less than $40k. Not everyone wants a Tesla.
I think that Plug-In Hybrid EVs are the best bet for the near future.
And I’m also studying alternative power generation and grid distribution options. This is an exciting time to be an engineer!
Mike, the time to come out and charge an EV (and then go back to recharge the battery pack) would seem about the same as the time to come out, load the EV on a roll-back, and carry it to a charge station. Not obvious that the extra investment would pay off. Also, you didn't mention a smaller generator (10KW-15KW?), which would charge maybe 20 miles in a half-hour. Could be an affordable compromise.
The F-150 PowerBoost generator will be able to recharge multiple power packs in the back of the truck while driving. You could fit 8 of these SparkCharge Roadie batteries in a F-150 with room to spare. Plus I’ve tested this with the PowerBoost truck loaned me last year. The on-board 7.2kW inverter generator can be enabled while driving. I used my 10kW load bank to confirm this.
It’s going to be much cheaper to connect a portable battery pack to an EV compared to getting a rollback to transport your EV to a charging spot. Plus I’m considering winter ice storms where there could be dozens to hundreds of stranded motorists like happened on I95 near DC last winter.
Smaller 12kW generators are a possibility, but you still need a Level-2 charger to make this work. I have a portable Level-2 charger to try this, but I need a loaner EV to experiment on. Much to do…
AAA would be most likely one to use this for roadside service
I think that’s correct…
Allstate has a big presence on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and also along many of the major routes in California.
Mark Cuban has money invested in Sparkcharge, you can purchase rescue plans starting at $25-$80.00/ month depending on how many charges you want per month.
Good to see someone is thinking about problems with EV ownership. I am all for protecting the environment . We must or we will perish. In my part of the world a lot of electricity is generated from coal. When you plug your EV in to charge do not forget to shovel in some coal . To all those pushing for EV's , please do some research for yourself. Do not blindly follow the heard.
I’m just an engineer following the science. I call ‘em like I see ‘em…
The best solution is to only purchase ICEs and force the manufacturers into reality.
That’s not going to happen. The vehicle manufacturers have already invested billions in EV technology and marketing. It will be a slow rollout, but I think it’s going to happen. Fingers crossed that the US power grid and energy production can be upgraded in time to make it work.
Besides the upgrading of the electrical distribution network (especially the underground network) there are huge issues for at home charging for those that live in condo complexes and intercity homeowners without a driveway or garage, and we cannot forget the apartment dwellers. In some areas we will be looking at new transmission lines, new substations, substation additions and also new distribution lines that have the potential of costing tens of millions of dollars. Going back 8 years ago before retirement from a major east coast utility A new 230,000-500,000 volt transmission line average cost was about 1.2 million dollars per mile and took many many years to get all the permitting and right away issues taken care of. A distribution line was about $250 to $350,000 per mile for overhead and $500,000 plus for underground, permitting and right away many times took longer due to usually being in a more densely populated areas. New substations were difficult for permits and right away due to push back from the not in my backyard argument. And then we have California that has all there own problems.
They have invested Billions of our tax dollars because the government is subsidizing this move to EV. What we have never seen from the current administration is a comprehensive detail plan with time tables to move from ICE to EV. Such a plan would need to address electrical grid infrastructure upgrade to meet increased demand and whole array of other issues. The Administration jumped off the bridge without a life jacket and we are suppose to sit back and accept it. NO WAY. When you have inept Politicians you get inept results.
It will be interesting to see what the thoughts and sales will be for EV’s going forward after this past weeks big freeze. Many cases of EV’s dying in the cold and not being able to charge them due to being way to cold for the battery to accept a charge and also power outages. I believe that they will be a very hard sell in the very cold northern areas of the country using current battery technology
Sorry, I'm sticking with my tried and true, dependable ICEs until I die. I'm 76.