So what happens when a Tesla or Ford Lightning pulls in with a trailer and wants to use the 50-amp pedestal outlet to charge the 125 kWh EV battery, plus the 30-amp outlet to power the trailer’s air conditioner and electric water heater? Should they be charged the same as everyone else?
Don’t agree with the comment that it will be a long time before you see this. It’s coming. I think the parks will have to make rules about this or charge accordingly. It’s a very valid question.
I believe that we are a long way before you will see anyone pulling an RV with a EV very far. You might have the one off doing it if they are close but they just don't have the legs to go any distance. You are more studied on this but I just don't see it.
I think we have a lingo disconnect. A toad is what you tow behind an RV. A tow vehicle (TV) is what you pull an RV with. I agree that an EV toad is coming soon but haven't researched it. I just don't believe a EV TV is going to have the legs to tow a heavy load a useful distance. They are going to have to really step up their game to make it go the distance given the average RVer goes three to five hundred miles a day depending.
No, I know exactly what a Toad is vs a TV. If the EV manufacturers did a few software changes you should be able to tow a small EV SUV “Toad” behind your gas or diesel motorhome.
But getting a TV (Tow Vehicle) capable of towing a large RV trailer 500 miles or more is complex. That being said, you should see what they’re building at the Volvo/Mack Truck plant for their all electric Semi Trucks.
If we can figure out the power grid upgrades and learn how to generate enough clean power, things will change more quickly than we can imagine.
I did fail to take into account the commercial truck makers but believe they would be miles ahead with a small diesel generator powering electrical motors, much like a train. If not diesel then hydrogen powered maybe.
I agree. I like the idea of combining a small diesel engine with a medium size battery and a reasonably powerful electric drive. But blinding acceleration is what sells EVs in America, so that probably won’t happen here.
maybe waste could be controlled by a couple of campgrounds I have been. I was given a base usage for the fee that I was charged. Then they gave me a meter reading and said I could this much power for the time I was there (which was reasonable). I did not come close to using my power allocation so I had no issue. This may cut down on some people who leave their windows open if the had to pay an overage.
A couple of thoughts....one, we're 100% solar powered with a large battery bank. Why should the price for power be included in my bill when I don't use it, conversely why should I subsidize the electrical use of a Class A 50 amp electrical hog? Second, the price of power where I live in SoCal varies from 45 to 56 cents per KWH. At those rates a park would go out of business if they couldn't cover their costs, thus we have parks that charge upwards of $100 a day. I'd rather have the cost of electricity unbundled from my daily/weekly site fee. Again, why should I subsidize the power used by a triple air conditioned Class A with zero energy saving features?
I propose that campgrounds/RV parks include a fixed allocation of kilowatt hours in the site rental fee, then charge for any kilowatt hours used in excess of the allocation. The allocation would be the same for 30 amp and 50 amp rigs. The challenge will be the investment required to install the metering equipment and automated data capture and reporting systems. Most parks won’t spend the money for adequately WiFi capacity; do we really think they will invest in electricity metering infrastructure for daily/weekly campers?
I personally don’t trust campground owners and staff to charge correctly for electrical usage. I think most people wouldn’t understand how to check the charge campgrounds would add to the bill for electrical use and most likely be overcharged. My feelings are, campgrounds should only charge separately for electric use for extended stay camping such as monthly stays.
One park we stay at charges for electricity if you go over a set usage. No, I don’t remember what that usage is. And they will not allow anyone to change an EV if they have one.
EV's should pay for their excess using of park electrical capacity to recharge their choice of vehicles. Normal park fees do include electricty, but not for the refueling of an EV.
Who came up with that ridiculous idea?? Campground owners that’s who. If they put in meters I guarantee you the daily rates will not change. They will also add a surcharge onto the actual cost of the electricity for providing the pedestal and infrastructure. What next? Hotel rooms with meters?
Sure if they reduce rates or adjust their rate depending on what you come in. A class B or B+ or even a C take far less to operate than 5th wheels and large towables and Class A. Like taxes we all don't use the services but we all pay into it. It's not fair.
If it means a small reduction in daily cost or more importantly keeping the rates unchanged and adding electric usage, I'm all for it. We (RVers) can't afford to lose any more mom & pop RV parks. If we choose to stay at an RV park, all we really want is water and sewer, we can do without plugging in to electric as long as we have a good clear sky and plenty of sun!
There is many caveats to this question, like how would the rv park keep track of all the spaces electrical usage. Would we have to pay for it when we check out? Will they have to read the meters for every check out? This would require most parks to install meters and labor to read meters-who will pay for this-(us). But on the flip side, we who have small travel trailers are subsidizing the big rigs. I’m sure the parks average out the electrical usage per sit and add it to the daily rate. So I am paying for a rig with maybe 3 air conditioner to my one and other equipment like big screen tvs, dish and clothes washers etc. All this said I am in favor of charging each rig for their usage. This could even be an average for standard size rigs and their equipment charges times the amount of days stayed. That way you pay at the beginning of the stay and the rv park doesn’t have to read meters.
This link provides summary information regarding various state laws regarding sub-metering, including meter inspections, fees being charged, electric rates, administration and service fees.
Campground sub-metering is specifically and separately addressed for Maine, Vermont, and Virginia. California provides a $3 electric meter fee for marinas and recreational vehicle parks.
Additionally, sub-metering software provides campground owners a sophisticated ability to determine the appropriate fees charged to the campground tenants.
Today's smart meters provide an ability to determine electricity usage in various time increments. At my Virginia home, my electric utility company provides me access to the hourly consumption.
Interesting question, but it’s really a double sided sword. (Not one of the options). For daily or weekly stays, paying a separate electric bill doesn’t make sense. The extra time and cost to read a meter would add cost over a ‘average’ electric cost built into the daily rate. For extended stays, paying for your electrical usage makes sense. You may be outside or gone and use less than the camper across the street, so it’s reasonable to bill for usage. I find this typical in extended stay parks and RV resorts.
So what happens when a Tesla or Ford Lightning pulls in with a trailer and wants to use the 50-amp pedestal outlet to charge the 125 kWh EV battery, plus the 30-amp outlet to power the trailer’s air conditioner and electric water heater? Should they be charged the same as everyone else?
Don’t agree with the comment that it will be a long time before you see this. It’s coming. I think the parks will have to make rules about this or charge accordingly. It’s a very valid question.
I believe that we are a long way before you will see anyone pulling an RV with a EV very far. You might have the one off doing it if they are close but they just don't have the legs to go any distance. You are more studied on this but I just don't see it.
I think EV Toads are closer than you think.
I think we have a lingo disconnect. A toad is what you tow behind an RV. A tow vehicle (TV) is what you pull an RV with. I agree that an EV toad is coming soon but haven't researched it. I just don't believe a EV TV is going to have the legs to tow a heavy load a useful distance. They are going to have to really step up their game to make it go the distance given the average RVer goes three to five hundred miles a day depending.
No, I know exactly what a Toad is vs a TV. If the EV manufacturers did a few software changes you should be able to tow a small EV SUV “Toad” behind your gas or diesel motorhome.
But getting a TV (Tow Vehicle) capable of towing a large RV trailer 500 miles or more is complex. That being said, you should see what they’re building at the Volvo/Mack Truck plant for their all electric Semi Trucks.
If we can figure out the power grid upgrades and learn how to generate enough clean power, things will change more quickly than we can imagine.
I did fail to take into account the commercial truck makers but believe they would be miles ahead with a small diesel generator powering electrical motors, much like a train. If not diesel then hydrogen powered maybe.
I agree. I like the idea of combining a small diesel engine with a medium size battery and a reasonably powerful electric drive. But blinding acceleration is what sells EVs in America, so that probably won’t happen here.
I have already seen it. Camped next to me. A tesla with a tent in the trunk.
Seen a Tesla with tent camping in Hope, B.C., it uses 50 AMp and is climate-controlled.
How about everyone is given a daily kilowatt allocation and if you exceed that then you are charged for usage ? Didn’t see this as a poll option…
Polls get too complex with too many questions. So you comments are most welcome…
maybe waste could be controlled by a couple of campgrounds I have been. I was given a base usage for the fee that I was charged. Then they gave me a meter reading and said I could this much power for the time I was there (which was reasonable). I did not come close to using my power allocation so I had no issue. This may cut down on some people who leave their windows open if the had to pay an overage.
A couple of thoughts....one, we're 100% solar powered with a large battery bank. Why should the price for power be included in my bill when I don't use it, conversely why should I subsidize the electrical use of a Class A 50 amp electrical hog? Second, the price of power where I live in SoCal varies from 45 to 56 cents per KWH. At those rates a park would go out of business if they couldn't cover their costs, thus we have parks that charge upwards of $100 a day. I'd rather have the cost of electricity unbundled from my daily/weekly site fee. Again, why should I subsidize the power used by a triple air conditioned Class A with zero energy saving features?
I propose that campgrounds/RV parks include a fixed allocation of kilowatt hours in the site rental fee, then charge for any kilowatt hours used in excess of the allocation. The allocation would be the same for 30 amp and 50 amp rigs. The challenge will be the investment required to install the metering equipment and automated data capture and reporting systems. Most parks won’t spend the money for adequately WiFi capacity; do we really think they will invest in electricity metering infrastructure for daily/weekly campers?
I personally don’t trust campground owners and staff to charge correctly for electrical usage. I think most people wouldn’t understand how to check the charge campgrounds would add to the bill for electrical use and most likely be overcharged. My feelings are, campgrounds should only charge separately for electric use for extended stay camping such as monthly stays.
One park we stay at charges for electricity if you go over a set usage. No, I don’t remember what that usage is. And they will not allow anyone to change an EV if they have one.
EV's should pay for their excess using of park electrical capacity to recharge their choice of vehicles. Normal park fees do include electricty, but not for the refueling of an EV.
That seems to be the consensus of the campgrounds I’ve asked.
Who came up with that ridiculous idea?? Campground owners that’s who. If they put in meters I guarantee you the daily rates will not change. They will also add a surcharge onto the actual cost of the electricity for providing the pedestal and infrastructure. What next? Hotel rooms with meters?
Sure if they reduce rates or adjust their rate depending on what you come in. A class B or B+ or even a C take far less to operate than 5th wheels and large towables and Class A. Like taxes we all don't use the services but we all pay into it. It's not fair.
If it means a small reduction in daily cost or more importantly keeping the rates unchanged and adding electric usage, I'm all for it. We (RVers) can't afford to lose any more mom & pop RV parks. If we choose to stay at an RV park, all we really want is water and sewer, we can do without plugging in to electric as long as we have a good clear sky and plenty of sun!
Considering a growing number of campers can camp off grid, it would be more reasonable to pay for just the site and not for utilities.
There should be a base load which is priced in. If you use more, you have to pay for it.
There is many caveats to this question, like how would the rv park keep track of all the spaces electrical usage. Would we have to pay for it when we check out? Will they have to read the meters for every check out? This would require most parks to install meters and labor to read meters-who will pay for this-(us). But on the flip side, we who have small travel trailers are subsidizing the big rigs. I’m sure the parks average out the electrical usage per sit and add it to the daily rate. So I am paying for a rig with maybe 3 air conditioner to my one and other equipment like big screen tvs, dish and clothes washers etc. All this said I am in favor of charging each rig for their usage. This could even be an average for standard size rigs and their equipment charges times the amount of days stayed. That way you pay at the beginning of the stay and the rv park doesn’t have to read meters.
This link provides summary information regarding various state laws regarding sub-metering, including meter inspections, fees being charged, electric rates, administration and service fees.
Campground sub-metering is specifically and separately addressed for Maine, Vermont, and Virginia. California provides a $3 electric meter fee for marinas and recreational vehicle parks.
Additionally, sub-metering software provides campground owners a sophisticated ability to determine the appropriate fees charged to the campground tenants.
Today's smart meters provide an ability to determine electricity usage in various time increments. At my Virginia home, my electric utility company provides me access to the hourly consumption.
https://www.ncsl.org/energy/utility-submetering
Interesting question, but it’s really a double sided sword. (Not one of the options). For daily or weekly stays, paying a separate electric bill doesn’t make sense. The extra time and cost to read a meter would add cost over a ‘average’ electric cost built into the daily rate. For extended stays, paying for your electrical usage makes sense. You may be outside or gone and use less than the camper across the street, so it’s reasonable to bill for usage. I find this typical in extended stay parks and RV resorts.